A Dialogue between Abu Thabit and Abul Munaqid((Unlocking the mind of a Hizbi))

A Dialogue between Abu Thabit and Abul Munaqid

((Unlocking the mind of a Hizbi))

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

قال الله تعالى : وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا

Allah said: Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.

Abu Thabit: As-Salamu alaykum

Abul Munaqid :

Abu Thabit : As-Salamu alaykum wa rahmatulilah

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: As-Salamu alaykum wa rahmatulilahi wa Barakatahu

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: Im sorry are you Muslim?

Abul Munaqid: I’m Salafi

Abu Thabit : So am I, but you didn’t reply to my greetings

Abul Munaqid: I don’t give salams to innovators

Abu Thabit : Akhi, are you for real?

Abul Munaqid : The Salaf didn’t give salams to innovators

Abu Thabit: Cmon man. What About Ibn Abbass ?

Abul Munaqid: What about him?

Abu Thabit: When he went to debate the Khawarij he gave them salams first. Is my innovation like that of the Khawarij or worse?

Abul Munaqid: you say you Salafi, but I don’t see you pray with the Salafis

Abu Thabit: Is my Salafiyah validated by whether or not I pray with the salafis ?

Abul Munaqid : Im saying though, if you were truly Salafi you’d pray with the Salafis

Abu Thabit: Where do the salafis pray ?

Abul Munaqid In the Salafi Masajid.

Abu Thabit: What makes a masjid Salafi Akhi? What are the conditions?

Abul Munaqid: Look man, at the Salafi masajid, we have Salafi Darus, with the Salafi duat from our elders from the likes of Abu Khadeejah, Abul Hasan Malik, Hasan Somali, and their likes.

Abu Thabit: So you are saying Salafi classes given by Salafi teachers makes a masjid Salafi?

Abul Munaqid: Nah, don’t ask me ask the ulema .

Abu Thabit: Akhi Im asking you because you labeled your masjid salaf, so that means I pray with Ahlul bida’?

Abul Munaqid: man the salafi Masajid, have salafi Darus with salafi teachers. I’m saying that’s what’s going on there.

Abu Thabit: Akhi, I think you are forgetting something, because many masajid around the world fit this condition, like the prophet’s masjid, and the Haram in Mecca.

Abul Munaqid: alright.

Abu Thabit: yea, and I don’t see the Ulema name those two holiest places in the World as Salaf Masjids.  Can you tell me one scholar who said the Haraam and the Prophet’s Masjid are Salafi Masjids?

Abul Munaqid: I’ll hafta check and get back to you, but I remember the noble brothers posted something from Sheikh Muqbil mentioning Salafi Masjid.

Abu Thabit:  What was Imam Muqbil’s proof and is the statement of a scholar evidence or a means to understand evidence?

Abul Munaqid: You trying to diss the Sheikh . Imam Muqbil always spoke with Daleel. You don’t know?

Abu Thabit: No I am not disrespecting the Shiekh, but I am asking you for his proof to call a masjid Salafi? Can we call an Eid Salafi since Muslims gather there like they do in a masjid? So what’s his proof?

Abul Munaqid: I don’t know what his proof is? But Im sure he had it.

Abu Thabit: So you blind following the Sheikh .

Abul Munaqid: So what’s wrong with following a scholar?

Abu Thabit : Nothing, but if you are acting by his speech for your actions it’s better to know what his proof is. Abu Hanifah said: it’s not permissible for anyone to act by my speech unless he knows what my evidence is.

Abul Munaqid: ok, Ill check with the noble ustadz and sms you the dalil or hit you on Facebook.

Abu Thabit: Cool, so do you only pray in Salafi Masjids?

Abul Munaqid: man I bump my head wherever I’m at and the salah comes in.

Abu Thabit: Don’t say bump my head, that’s not a term for Salah given by the salaf or the Prophet. I gotta  question for you. If the all the masajid you pray in are the only Salafi masajid, what about the other masajid that you don’t consider Salafi are they places of bidah and its’ people?

Abul Munaqid: Akhi, I aint say that.

Abu Thabit: But I’m asking you akhi. You didn’t give me salams because you said you don’t see me pray with the Salafis and you said you don’t give salams to innovators.

Abul Munaqid: Nah, really I didn’t give you salams because you aint clear.

Abu Thabit: clear ? am I blurry?

Abul Munaqid: I saw you supporting that conference at Brixton. They support Al- Mara’bi and Al-Halabi. We don’t gather and support with people who support and defend deviants with false principles or those who attack Sheikh Rabee the Imam of Jarh wa Ta’dil.

Abu Thabit: Brother , Shiekh Salih As-Suhyamee and Shiekh as-Sindi  were going to be there and they dont support Al-Mara’bi or Al-Halabi and corrected someone who spoke ill of Sheikh Rabee at the conference. Is Sheikh As-Suhaymee a Salafi scholar? Can we say Shiekh As-Suhaymee  and Sheikh As-Sindi are  deviants now because they  were  at Brixton masjid?

Abul Munaqid: The Ustadz, our elder, the noble brother Abu Khadijah said we don’t  go and gather with ahlul bida’h this strengthens their numbers.

Abu Thabit: yeah, I remember that audio and Abu Aaliyah said he made blanket Tabdee with that statement.

Abul Munaqid: Man that guy is a pretender, a hater, a degree purchasing fraud, a shameless hip- hop fanatic and a liar. Abu Khadeejah never said all of the scholars who attend the conference are innovators. Your mans need to repent.

Abu Thabit: Wow the name calling goes on well with you. Akhi, perhaps the spinning tactic of this brother has caused you to forget the English language and principles in usul al fiqh.[1]

Abul Munaqid: what are you saying

Abu Thabit: his response was that similar to Ahlul Bida’ when they face strong proof. Name –calling. Next point Abu Aaliyah never said that Abu Khadeejah said all the scholars who attend the conference are all innovators, but maybe you and AbuKhaeejah don’t know the context of his sentence and his actions. For example, If I say I like apples and oranges and mangoes. Which fruit do I like?

Abul Munaqid: Apple , oranges and mangoes.

Abu Thabit: but Akhi I only said I like apples, so why are you adding oranges and mangoes?

Abul Munaqid:  because you said , “and.”

Abu Thabit: Toyyib, so now let’s listen to his statement again.[2]

Abul Munaqid: ok play the ustadz words.

Abu Thabit : Ok ima pause it here . He acknowledged that people are leaving him, so he’s angry. “Every year a corner of the masjid gone.”  He said it right?

Abul Munaqid: yeah, now play it again.

Abu Thabit:  “ you don’t want the truth go..They say we’re going up the road because sheikh fulan is coming, oh we’re going down to Luton because sheikh Fulan is coming,oh we’re going to Brixton because sheikh Fulan is coming, so you’ll  gather with ahlil Bid’ah”

Abul  Munaqid: ok , so what !

Abu Thabit: Do you understand English? Yes or no?

Abul Munaqid: yes,  Im saying whats wrong with what he said though.

Abu Thabit: did he or did he not say, sheikh fulan is coming, so you’ll gather with ahlul bid’ah.  Aren’t those his words?

Abul Munaqid: yes, but he didn’t say all the scholars. Mr. Battle tricking you. He said, so you’ll gather with Ahlul bid’a meaning those masjid.

Abu Thabit : Where on the audio did he say those masjid? He clearly said, sheikh fulan is coming after mentioning various masjid then he said, So you’ll gather with Ahlil Bid’ah. Whose gathering with Ahil bidah then ?  If it’s the masjids that’s intended and not the scholars as you claim, then aren’t those scholars who gather at those masjid blameworthy too? Or do they have diplomatic immunity?

Abul Munaqid: I didn’t  get you,

Abu Thabit : You are trying to interpret his clear speech for his defense ,when he clearly  said:” shaykh fulan is coming, so you’ll gather with ahlul bid’ah” and everyone who understands English will tell you the context of his words means the scholars are included. Next point for the sake of argument you said his intention for his words,” gather with Ahlil Bid’ah refers to the masjid. Correct?

Abul Munaqid: yeah

Abu Thabit: so , if those masjids is what’s intended when he said  Ahlil Bid’ah .

Abul Munaqid:  It is. He’s referring to those masajid being places of bid’ah

Abu Thabit: Ok then what does that say  about the scholars who visit those places and teach there then? Aren’t they gathering with Ahlil bid’ah? You say a man is on the religion of his companions!!

Abul Munaqid: I told you Im a layman I can’t make a ruling on people. You should ring the Ustadz and the noble elders at SP directly.

Abu Thabit : Akhi , let me be frank with you I prefer to avoid the ustadz for many reasons and among them is the fact that  scholars have warned against him and in particular Sheikh Wasiullah Abbass and Sheikh Khalid Ar-Radaddi.[3] And Shaykh Salih As-Suhaymee said he was ignorant.[4]

Abul Munaqid: Sheikh Wasiullah is an Alim and he’s wrong about the Maktabah. He only criticized them because of his love with Ahlul hadith and Green lane masjid and other people put some stuff about our noble brothers in the Sheikh’s ear. Plus scholars in madina praise them.

Abu Thabit: AKhi it’s a detailed criticism and doesn’t it take precedence over a general praise?

Abul Munaqid: Akhi, the elder, the noble brother Abu Khadeejah is a man who calls to the following of the Scholars. What are the people you take from calling to?[5]

Abu Thabit: They call to Allah and the obligation to follow the messenger and not only the opinions of scholars. So Sheikh Wasiuallah sat with the maktabah for hours and asked them for proof and they couldn’t produce a shred of evidence and you call this an error?.[6]

Abul Munaqid: ustadz Anwar Wright destroyed the doubts about that criticism. When you have criticism like this you must first look to see if the man is calling to sunnah in his speech and action and that’s what our noble elder, our ustdaz does and his trustworthiness is established. Al-Hamdulilah. [7]

Abu Thabit: So you are saying Sheikh Wasiuallah is wrong? and his criticism isn’t in detail ? And the sheikh after sitting with them for hours only based his judgment on his desires?

Abul Munaqid : Nah, I aint saying all that but the if you knew the maktabah you’d know the Sheikh is wrong this time, but he still a scholar though. We can accept and reject every scholars statement except the Prophet.

Abu Thabit: So let me ask you this then if Sheik Wasiuallah is wrong about our brother Abu Khadeejah why can’t Sheikh Rabee be wrong about Tahir?

Abul Munaqid: Aw you see you trying to defame and drop all the sheikhs’ criticisms. You liar, you dajjal, you imbecile you Ahmaq.  You trying to attack the sheikh. He’s the Imam of Jarh wa Ta’dil. Sheikh Al-Albani said: He flag bearer of Jarh wa Ta’dil.[8]

Abu Thabit: Yo man! Calm down! How did I attack the sheikh? I simply said if sheikh Wasiuallah is wrong about Abu Khadeejah , then why can’t Sheikh Rabee be wrong about Tahir? That’s all I said!

Abul Munaqid : Naw you playing with words. Ayo, I know what you trying do. Tahir was criticized by Sheikh Rabee

Abu Thabit: Is his criticism general or detailed?

Abul Munaqid: well the Sheikh said if he was salafy he’d write the bayyan and free himself of Mara’bi and Halaby and not write against the salafis.

Abu Thabit: Ok, I’m asking you is that detailed or general? And does not writing a bayyan take a person out of Salafiyyah?[9]

Abul Munaqid: it’s a criticism and he shoulda wrote the bayyan

Abu Thabit: Other scholars in his city, madeenah where he’s lived since about 96 or 97 advised him not to and said there was no need for it. That’s one point, the second point is a person can say the same thing about that criticism you reject against Abu Khadeejah  for the criticism of Sheikh Rabee. It was built off erroneous information. Sheikh Suhaymee asked Abu Khadeejah for 1 piece of evidence that he gathered against Sheikh Tahir and he couldn’t do it. Not one piece of evidence.  [10]

Abul Munqid: you see, you calling him sheikh. You supporting him and Madeenah.con and the likes of those that of which have come with Tamyee’.

Abu Thabit: no, Im calling him Sheikh because scholars in madinah call him sheikh. Scholars like Ali Nasir Al-Faqeeh, Sheikh As-Suhyamee and Sheikh Abdur Razzaq  . At his Masters dissertation Sheikh Abdur Razzaq actually said that Shiekh Tahir was among their status now before bursting into tears. So now I ask you what do you do when you have a detailed praise and a general criticism.  Not to mention Shiekh Tahir lives in Madeenah and Sheikh Rabee at that time lived in Mecca. So could  it  be possible that the scholars in madeenah who see him every day were more familiar with him more than Sheikh Rabee was?

Abul Munaqid: What you saying Sheikh Rabee is ignorant? He bases his criticisms off proofs and evidences.

Abu Thabit: No, Im not saying he’s ignorant, but I am saying he’s not infallible.

Abul Munaqid: Yeah, I hear you.

Abu Thabit: ok check this out, what was it that made sheikh Rabee come to his conclusion? Did he go through sheikh Tahir lectures or visit Madeenah.com website? What was it the evidence?

Abul Munaqid: you trying to dispraise the sheikh, you are a fool, you all caught up in the MADCON fitnah. You support the likes of those clowns and their games.

Abu Thabit: Akhi watch the name calling and how am I dispraising the sheikh? Ok, take this then, can I marry you daughter without a wali ?

Abul Munaqid: No- the hadith says the marriage without a wali is invalid.

Abu Thabit: Is  Abu Hanifah an Imam from Ahlus Sunnah?

Abul Munaqid: yes of course

Abu Thabit:  Well, his view is a woman doesn’t need a wali.

Abul Munaqid: He’s wrong

Abu Thabit: what about gold for women, is it halal of Haraam?

Abul Munaqid: Gold is Haram for men to wear but Halal for women

Abu Thabit: Sheikh Al-Albani considered it was Haraam for women as well.

Abul Munaqid: He was wrong.

Abu Thabit: does touching a woman break wudu?

Abul Munaqid: No, the prophet [ﷺ] kissed his wives then went to the prayer.

Abu Thabit: Imam Ash-Shafa’I believed it did

Abul Munaqid : I think  He was wrong

Abu Thabit: Alright brother, I just mentioned 3 positions from 3 Imams and you rejected their positions. Why ?

Abul Munaqid: cuz their positions went against the evidence.

Abu Thabit: So if a scholar goes against the evidence we can reject his position

Abul Munaqid: yeah

Abu Thabit: I noticed you didn’t call me names and you didn’t raise your voice and express the same zeal for Abu Hanifa, Al-Albani and Ash-Shafa’I . Like you did for sheikh Rabee.

Abul Munaqid: Akhi, Im straight!   Ima stick to Spubs. They are our elders in Dawah. The likes of  Kashif Khan, Umar Quinn, Hasan Somali, Abul Hasan Malik, Moosa Richardson and others from their  likes.

Abu Thabit:  Elders, Elders,  huh , Akhi none of them are as old as Dawud Abeeb. He’s a senior citizen and has been giving Dawah since the 80’s. Why didn’t you mention his name?

Abul Munaqid: Who is he?

Abu Thabit : He was the Imam on Lincoln street and played a role for introducing Salafiyah to the west way back when.

Abul Munaqid: Oh yeah, I remember now. He got issues.

Abu Thabit: Issues, Is he a deviant?

Abul Munaqid: Man, he lectures with Zahid Rashid at Al-Baseerah, who also didn’t write the bayyan and free himself from Halaby and Ma’rabi and their likes.

Abu Thabit: What is wrong with Zahid? He brings scholars here every summer.

Abul Munaqid: Really, I didn’t hear about this.

Abu Thabit: that’s cuz you isolated in your salafi Masajid. He brought Shiekh Fahad Al-Fuhayd twice and Sheikh Khalid ar-Raddadi once. Are they Salafi or deviants?

Abul Munaqid:  Yo look man, I aint gonna  make Tabdee of the scholars I leave that for the people of knowledge.

Abu Thabit: Ok, fair enough ,but you said Dawud Abeed has issues cause he works with Zahid Rashid but you won’t say the same thing for people more knowledgeable than he is, who also work with Zahid.  So if Brixton Masjid is deviant, Green Lane Masjid is deviant, and Zahid has issues, then what does that say about the scholars who visit them? Are they unaware of these organizations and individuals true nature or are they deviants?

Abul Munaqid: maybe

Abu Thabit: I got it now. You roll with the group that title themselves “The Salafis.”

Abul Munaqid: Yes, they are upon clarity in Minhaj and clarity in Salafiyyah and clarity in Aqeedah.

Abu Thabit: Akhi I hate to inform you of this now , but they have characteristics of a cult .[11]

Abul Munaqid: Man go ahead with that. That’s that paper that Lamont Shameless printed  it was made to attack the  noble upright elders of Salafiyyah.

Abu Thabit: How do you figure so, I read the paper, and he didn’t mention any names?

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: Ok, name one person. Just one person they consider and accept as a salafi muslim from the Duat that’s not with them?

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: cmon brother , just one in the west, and stop giving me that deer in the headlight stare.

Abul Munaqib: If those Duat were salafi they’d work with our brothers from the likes of Germantown and Masjid Rahmah.

Abu Thabit: Akhi, so it’s a condition to work with those masajid?

Abul Munaqid: Man the Salafis are united. Allahu Akbar.

Abu Thabit: I don’t doubt that “The Salafis “ are united.

Abul Munaqid: Yep upon clarity in minhaj.

Abu Thabit: you mentioned masjid Rahmah where did the former Imam study at again?

Abul Munaqid: he got understanding and quotes the athar of the salaf.

Abu Thabit : You mentioned Germantown Masjid. How long was Hasan Somali in Yemen for again and what did he study? By the way didn’t you hear what happened between him and Abdul Fattah over a Facebook post?

Abul Munaqid: Naw. What happened?

Abu Thabit: khalas Ima let you ask them. But if they don’t answer you I’ll share the incident and his phone number so you can call him.

Abul Munaqid: Son! It’s like you got nothing better to do than to attack the Salafis

Abu Thabit: Attack , no don’t say that but rather say criticize . Who is above reproach? I can see you new, so how about you open your eyes, read and ask questions.

Abul Munaqid: No, I am not new; I’m just coming home from prison.

Abu Thabit: good ,fresh start. Get a job, go back to school and focus on the things that benefit you in this life and in the hereafter, don’t waste your time with these guys to much.

Abul Munaqid: Yes-Alhamdulilah. I learnt my Salafiyyah inside. We have to avoid the innovators and stay away from the Hizbis like, Ali Davis, Muhammad Muneer, Mr.Battle  and their likes.

Abu Thabit: Akhi, watch your tongue . The Angels are recording.

Abul Munaqid: Man, them dudes got Tamyee and support Hizbis, so we group people with their friends. Don’t you know the Hadith? “A man follows the religion of his companions and the Salaf used to say whoever hides his bida from us can’t hide his companionship.

Abu Thabit: Whats wrong with Muhammad Muneer?

Abul Munaqid: He supports Tahir and Madeenah.con  and  lectures at Siraj Wahhaj Masjid.

Abu Thabit: Ok so the scholars in madeenah deviant too who support Tahir?

Abul Munaqid: man stop bringing the scholars in this. You asked me why Muhammad Muneer is deviant and I told you

Abu Thabit: please! You use an  issue that not’s connected to the usul of the sunnah, and then join it to those you disagree with to declare them astray and innovators. Madeenah.com, man Sheikh Khalid Ar-Raddadi was a moderator of the site until he stopped due to his work load.

Abul Munaqid: And Ali Davis  has ikhwani and Tamyee principles. He on a flyer calling to unity with deviants.

Abu Thabit: it isn’t everyone who involves themselves in politics and calls to unity to be called an Ikhwani, unless you think we are supposed to call to separation .It is not permissible to teach a misguided Muslim? Are they going there teaching? Are there any restrictions being placed on them from the host?

Abul Munaqid:  You don’t know the seerah? The dawah of the Prophet was to call to separation . Don’t you know he was sent with  suratul -Kafiroon ?

Abu Thabit: naw you got a misunderstanding here and this is getting lengthy plus I got errands to run, but dig this each and every one we spoke about today has articles , audios and books available. PLEASE PRODUCE SOME EVIDENCE THAT GOES AGAINST THE QURAN , OR THE SUNNAH, OR THE IJMA  OF THE SALAF BY WAY OF  THEIR SPEECH OR WRITINGS.  Otherwise ill hafta consider your refutations from you and your group as bogus and fraudulent that are built off of jealously .Ok? As-salamu alaykum

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: AKhi I gave you salams, we done, As-salamu alaykum

Abul Munaqid:

Abu Thabit: Man never mind, As-salamu alaykum wa Rahmatulilahi wa Barakatahu.. Im out

Allah mentioned the people of innovation and misguidance reject clear proof.

قال الله تعالى: وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ بِكُلِّ آيَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُوا قِبْلَتَكَ ۚ وَمَا أَنتَ بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَتَهُمْ ۚ

And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction).

[powr-hit-counter id=e83a7375_1500245222619]

Prepared by Abu Aaliyah Abdullah ibn Dwight Battle

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUageRm4EAg&index=5&list=PLrym_grlN1V9RyUrWX_ZL_C_979FgBiyY

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MraCqmz47zI&index=2&list=PLrym_grlN1V9RyUrWX_ZL_C_979FgBiyY

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y91m87hQPM

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ck6Nj4AQsI&index=3&list=PLrym_grlN1V9RyUrWX_ZL_C_979FgBiyY

[5] Audio:

[6] https://islam4me.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/the-reason-why-sheikh-waseeallah-abbas-warned-against-abu-khadeejah-salafi-publications-and-their-followers/

[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEN8FpkUqL8

[8] This is results from the teaching of Abul Hasan Malik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wyk7WkxKk0

[9] Shaykh Ubaid Al-Jabiree [ may Allah preserve him] said  both Shiekhs,Ahmed Bazmoul and Usama Atayah were overnight sensations and trouble makers and Sheikh Rabee[may Allah preserve and protect him] said that is general criticism.

[10] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ck6Nj4AQsI&list=PLrym_grlN1V9RyUrWX_ZL_C_979FgBiyY&index=3

[11] https://www.abuaaliyah.com/2015/08/22/cult-characteristics-among-the-salafis-in-the-west-2/